Entrepreneurship Unfiltered: The Realities of Balancing Business, Family, and Health

00:18

Jordan Tyler

Welcome back to Founders in Focus, where we're taking you behind the scenes with entrepreneurs shaping the future of agriculture, food, animal health, and much more.

00:30

Mark McAllister: We get the opportunity of tracking the journeys of three innovative startups as they navigate the highs and lows of entrepreneurship and everything in between. And as they gear up for the conclusion of the Plug and Play Agtech and Animal Health accelerator program coming up here in June. Today we're continuing our deep dive into the world of innovation by catching up with Sebastian Doyle, founder of Medipups, Barry McDonough, CEO of Hinalea Imaging, and Daphne Pruss, CEO and partner with Nataur.

01:00

Jordan Tyler: We'll be hearing all about how recent events have shaken the personal life of one founder. How shopping trends are shifting with the new presidential administration, the evolution of food safety technologies like hyperspectral imaging, what it's like to balance life as a founder, a father, a husband and a human being, the challenges of bringing sustainable innovations to market, and much more.

We're your hosts, Jordan Tyler —

Mark McAllister: —and Mark McAllister—

Jordan Tyler: —and this is Founders in Focus.

In January, Los Angeles county and surrounding areas were devastated by a series of wildfires that destroyed more than 57,000 acres and over 16,000 structures across the region. The catastrophe resulted in more than 51,000 emergency responses from local officials and 29 confirmed deaths. Thousands of people lost their homes, lost everything in this tragedy.

02:11

a and US economies throughout: 2025

03:05

Sebastian Doyle: It was honestly pretty crazy. You know, everyone in Pacific palace has got really affected, people that have lost their homes and stuff. So some people really got affected. I live in a condo right by the hills here in Hollywood and there was a Hollywood fire and we're in the evacuation zone. So I was in bed with influenza A, with body aches and couldn't move and was told, hey, you gotta move. So my buddy came and picked me up, took care of me and went off to Laguna Beach. But the whole situation was crazy. People were evacuating, dumping their cars on the street. It was just like pretty apocalyptic. It was very weird to see all of that. And then it's like a new fire was popping up every other hour.

03:52

Sebastian Doyle: But yeah, for me, it was honestly stressful because I just was ill again and I just couldn't really move. So to get the dog, get all my stuff, take all my passports and basically take my belongings and like get out.

04:07

Jordan Tyler: Wow. The condo where you're living, it wasn't affected?

04:11

Sebastian Doyle: No, no, it was all good, but it was just. They basically managed to catch the fire just before it hit the first house. But it was like, I think the first house, like by the hill maybe was affected, but not that much later, just managed to keep under control. But the one in Pacific Palisades and around was all bunch of houses completely burned to the crisp. It was like something out of Zombieland. I felt like I was in the apocalypse movie.

04:38

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, it's hard to wrap your head around and I'm just, I'm really glad to hear that you and your dog are okay and also that you've recovered from the super nasty flu that's been going around just one thing after another. And then on top of that, you're running Meta Pups and another venture in the cannabis space, which we'll get to a little more later. But do you feel like having to evacuate, set you back at all in terms of your businesses, or were you able to just kind of work through it?

05:09

Sebastian Doyle: No, I was actually. I was actually able to work through it. But yeah, being sick actually kind of, that's. That was a little bit of a setback. Just at least. You couldn't even look at my screen. It was. My head was like pounding. That was me, honestly. Maybe the setback. But yeah, going to Laguna beach was kind of nice. I was just able to kind of work by the beach. It was, it was honestly making the best of a bad situation.

05:28

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. Very entrepreneurial of you to just figure it out and keep going.

05:34

Sebastian Doyle: Yeah, I was like, I've got it, I've got to do it.

05:38

Mark McAllister: I think that's maybe a good segue is, you know, the market continues, business continues. We've got these, you know, pretty dramatic events and obviously that's true. I think of a lot of us. So I think maybe, you know, shifting a little bit. Would love to merge more into beyond some of the highlights here over the last couple of months, you know, personally or, you know, across the economy or across, you know, social events or press in the U.S. Obviously, the election. Tell us about maybe some of the trends in the company, some of the new things in the company that have kind of endured throughout that.

06:08

Sebastian Doyle: Yeah, yeah. So we, with all the politics and everything going on in Q4 Meta, you know, Facebook and Instagram advertising was just all over the place. Cost of acquisition was really high, so that was definitely a hurdle. And soon as Trump came in, honestly, overnight I saw my return on ad spend and everything just completely increased. Almost like confidence in shopping increased. So that was like very noticeable and instant kind of like metric that increased. It was really pretty crazy to see it. Now we're just refining our cost per acquisition, our manufacturing process, optimizing costs and just really working on that. But yeah, also work on new products. So we're really pretty much ready to launch those. So that's kind of what we've been working on. But yeah, cost of acquisition is really the main thing that I've been focusing on.

07:05

Sebastian Doyle: Just trying to cut that ad spend as much as possible and make the company as profitable as possible. And that's definitely a really tough hurdle nowadays.

07:15

Mark McAllister: Yeah. Two questions there. First, as I understand what you're saying here, you saw a pretty dramatic upgrade tick in consumer behavior, purchasing behavior, just post Trump is what I'm hearing. That's fascinating.

07:27

Sebastian Doyle: Also, on the cannabis business side, it was just overall kind of shopping in general. I was like, I was like, oh, this might be a fluke. I'm not sure if this is actually a j. I saw on two companies. So it was definitely fascinating to see.

07:40

Mark McAllister: Yeah. And then, yeah, customer acquisition cost, trying to reduce that, become more targeted. Walk us through maybe a little bit more of the strategy side and if, you know, not strategy, tell us what you tried, what's worked as much as you're. You're willing to share with the. With a broader audience here.

07:55

Sebastian Doyle: Yeah, yeah. So. So we have a great team on the marketing side. We work with great content creators and our TikTok approach is great. I managed to get a video to 1.2 million views organically. So I'm trying to basically balance the paid social with organic content and just try and drive as much traffic to our page as possible. So, you know, even if, say, we don't have money, I could still manage to get organic content to the page. But what we've seen work is posting TikToks and seeing what resonates and then running that as an ad. So that's been really good for us. And Just heartwarming stories on ads. I've got a, I've got a bunch of examples I can show you, but that's something I've been really going in on, is the content. Because nowadays creative fatigue is so prevalent.

08:44

Sebastian Doyle: It happens especially when you're scaling your ads. I've got to be on it with as much content as possible. And sometimes that's really draining because you've got to get new video, net new videos every week and launch them.

08:59

Mark McAllister: Tell me this. What has surprised you about the viral content you've been able to produce? You know, maybe what's the surprising consumer reaction? What's the surprising, you know, piece of content, style of content? Tell us what you've learned as you've run a bunch of various types of content here.

09:18

Sebastian Doyle: So this actually is, I'll take this back, not just for metabolism, but also from my previous companies and experience in e commerce and marketing. So I, you know, I launched in the space and I was like, oh, I've got to get a professional video that looks like, you know, I'm going to shoot it with a red camera. Those cameras cost like 100 grand or something like that. And I hired an agency, I spent like $15,000 on an ad. Didn't get a single set. I was like, okay, well, people don't resonate with that. You know, they don't care if the ad looks pro. Maybe I want at a stage of your company when you're, you know, the Nike, then the branding and those videos do really resonate.

09:59

Sebastian Doyle: But there is, there's a shift and especially with Meta Pops, that unique generated content is what people relate to almost someone that's not selling them something is what they really want to, you know, they resonate with and they actually purchase and they go through and they buy it. So that was really surprising to me in this space is that, yeah, you might have a video that you, that looks stylistically beautiful, really well shot, great models, great whatever, great everything, great lighting. And then you can have your mom at home that takes a selfie video on her phone with her dog and goes, yeah, this is, you know, this is my favorite, you know, dope product. I've been using this on, you know, Thor for three months and whatever. And then that is actually what perform.

10:45

Mark McAllister: Yeah. Tell us a bit about the last couple of months of the program. Give us an update from the last time we chatted with you on what you've been able to do and some of the content you've seen in some of the relationships.

10:57

Sebastian Doyle: Yeah. So the with the mentors were really helpful. I looked at you as well after our call. Every single mentor has been really insightful and helpful. A few directions we decided to take in. You know, initially I wanted to kind of go for B2B and explore those opportunities. But now after Q4 and looking at the overall health of the business where I want to take the business, we're going to stick to direct consumer and DTC and really just focus and scale that channel and then move into the other channels and opportunities. I think speaking to vets and people that have exited their company successfully, it's like something's working. I've got to focus on that and then I can scale that and then move on to other things.

11:43

Sebastian Doyle: So I think the actual vet approach for me on Meta Pops, I'm going to postpone that and move that to the next thing once what I'm currently doing is fully scaled. So yeah, so it's been really insightful and just an incredible experience just speaking to people that have so much. Yeah, so much experience as well.

12:03

Jordan Tyler: So you're moving forward with more of a direct to consumer focus. And last time we talked you mentioned getting set up on Amazon. Is that still a thing that I've.

12:13

Sebastian Doyle: Actually I’ve postponed as well. Yeah, I was, were. I actually set the whole page, everything set up. But I, you know, they take quite heavy fees. Of course we're going to get a lot of sales from it. But I'm quite liking going direct to consumer right now just on our directory, our website. It also kind of adds exclusivity to the brand where you can't get us on Amazon, you can only go direct to us. Some people argue completely against that. I somewhat agree. But right now what we're doing is working. I want to scale it fully and then start expanding to other channels.

12:47

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, totally understand that. And it's interesting too, the other founder teams that we're following through this podcast are a little more business to business or B2B focused, meaning they have solutions that they'll sell or integrate with other companies who make products for consumers. But you're right there on the front lines in a more business to consumer or B2C way with Medipups. So, I just think it's really fascinating to hear some of the day to day trials and tribulations and how they're different or unique for brands that are marketing directly to consumers.

And kind of along that vein, I wanted to talk a little bit about your cannabis venture we don't have to get super in the weeds, but I just think it's a really compelling thing that you're involved in two startup ventures at the same time. And I can see some similarities.

13:42

Jordan Tyler: Like I'm sure that there's overlap between dog owners and cannabis users for sure, but the markets seem pretty different, right?

13:51

Sebastian Doyle: Yeah. So, yeah, they're different for sure.

13:53

Mark McAllister: Yeah.

13:53

Jordan Tyler: So walk us through what it's like to juggle those two businesses. Like, I know Medipups is your main thing right now, but through this podcast and as I've talked with entrepreneurs, it seems like running one venture is a ton of work and you're running two. So what does that look like for you on a day to day basis?

14:13

m is the website. It's like a: 1970

15:04

Sebastian Doyle: So yeah, that's the main thing is kind of waking up and making sure that I can split my time between both brands, give it the same attention and more to Medipups, really. But you also give the other brand attention. But yeah, we've, we're actually starting to scale that brand. It's, it's been a lot of fun.

15:20

Mark McAllister: So as Jordan alluded to, we've heard a lot of reasons why it's really hard to scale an endeavor. What I've noticed about the projects you've worked on, it seems uncommonly easy for you to launch new brands. This just really seems like your wheelhouse and a strength. So give us the contrarian perspective of why it's easy to launch a company.

15:43

Sebastian Doyle: The way I see it on this is I, I mean I do so much research as well before launching it and launching anything I do, it's just to make sure the products market fit the Branding's right. And at heart, I'm really creative. So I focus a lot of the time on the brands, the creative, making sure I can create a product that is brilliant and that is well marked, that is well branded and place it in front of consumer. And if you do that, most of the time they'll be buying it. And most of my struggles have been, you know, past that. Once I launch all that, you know, we don't have sale issues, the scaling bit.

16:19

Sebastian Doyle: So I think a lot of the experience and a lot of the failures I've had in the past, where I've launched stuff quickly, there's no market fit. I don't understand the branding. I've been able to really work on that, I think about six and a half, almost seven years now, and really fine tune that so I can really, I pivot very quickly if something doesn't work, like, okay, this color, this brand, this doesn't make sense. But usually that's really how I can launch and get up and running. It's from that previous experience. And also I love doing it. I love, I love building brands. And yeah, it's like, it's. I don't even feel like it's work.

16:55

Mark McAllister: Yeah. In a perfect world. Does Seb launch a new brand on annual basis? What's your preferred pace?

17:03

Sebastian Doyle: Honestly? Yeah. I get the itch and I get the itch every now and then. And I always design stuff. I've got a designer I've been working with since I started e-comm. She's been with me since the beginning. And sometimes we just build brand ideas and, you know, they'll never get seen and then they'll resurface. I mean, Groove, the design for Groove before it actually turned into that flower power, I designed as a nootropic functional mushroom brand and I put it aside and never did anything with it. And then it resurfaced and it turned into what Groove is today. So I always build brands and if there's something I see, oh, I like that product. I think that's trending. That's something I can do. I kind of look into my brand repertoire and if there's anything that fits, I'll take it. If not, then I'll build it from scratch.

17:47

Jordan Tyler: It's clear Sebastian has a brain for brand building. Really glad he stayed safe amid those wildfires and look forward to staying in touch with him as he fine tunes his marketing and customer acquisition strategies, launches new products and takes Meta Pups to the next level. But scaling and marketing a brand isn't the only challenge facing innovators in the food and agriculture culture spaces. Food safety remains a critical concern, especially as supply chains become more complex and consumer expectations continue to rise.

Barry McDonogh, CEO of Himalaya Imaging, has been working on bringing cutting edge food safety technologies, specifically hyperspectral imaging, forward in the supply chain to give producers and growers access tools that can help them ensure quality, safety and a whole host of other aspects that we prioritize when it comes to our food.

18:50

Jordan Tyler: So, Barry, your work in food safety is more important than ever, especially as like you have said in our first episode, there seems to be a bigger and bigger microphone for food related recalls these days. So what are your thoughts around the number of food related recalls we've seen in the United States recently or even just this year? I mean, it's only February and I feel like I've already seen so many in January.

19:17

Barry McDonogh: I think there were about 15 product recalls so far this year. So, you know, the trend continues, unfortunately, of these external quality failures. The recalls typically happen for three or four different reasons. You know, the first one being pathogens. So those recalls related to Listeria, E. Coli, Salmonella, et cetera, you also then get recalls that are related to foreign bodies being in the product that are unexpected. So, you know, we also work on the foreign object detection side. That could be anything from bones to plastics to metals, which are a little bit serious when you've got metals in the product. And then also then you get things like undeclared ingredients.

20:03

Barry McDonogh: So if there's an allergen or something in there that could be serious for, say, someone has a peanut allergy and there aren't meant to be peanuts in that product, but there's some form of contamination, then you also get those recalls as well. So typically they're the sort of three larger recall categories that you deal with. And for us at Himalaya, we focus largely on the first two, which would be the pathogens, identifying the pathogens and identifying foreign objects before they get to consumers.

20:33

Mark McAllister: Maybe more of a generic question for you, Barry. I know over the last 20 years, the reality of most quality assurance quality control teams is we're still very much more reactive than proactive. I think as we go back to, you know, like the last month, for example, you brought up a couple examples. And I guess my question is in lieu of that, and then in lieu of the reality that we're still pretty reactive, what's the biggest driver, I think on the sales side, for most of the Folks that you talk to, is this something where they experienced an outbreak, they, you know, experienced a flaw and then it really drove the need to change behavior? Or are you starting to see maybe more proactive measures taken by quality experience? And I guess maybe that's also just a function of technology and technology advancement.

21:15

Mark McAllister: But give me some color on what you've seen, you know, as you're obviously working with a number of the larger producers here.

21:22

Barry McDonogh: So I think there are sort of two major drivers. One is just managing risk. Nobody wants to be, you know, that head of quality that has to go and explain why, you know, your market cap has dropped by 10%, right. So I think that there's acknowledgement that when these events occur, they can be, you know, they can be really terminal for some businesses and, you know, brands sometimes just can't recover from these happenings. So I think at a large, there's just a requirement to sort of manage that risk and make sure you're doing everything that you can to ensure that it just, it doesn't happen. Now, unfortunately, you could still be following all of the requirements and be unlucky and that it happens. You know, it's not a trivial matter.

22:05

Barry McDonogh: It's a really difficult task, especially if you're, you know, you're receiving inputs from lots of different places and lots of different suppliers. So you can be unlucky. But I think at a macro level, there's just a general trend towards wanting to manage this better and going beyond maybe just sort of the base regulatory requirements. And then I think from an operational perspective, you're getting this increase in automation. You know, there's a need to sort of reduce costs, and a lot of companies are doing that through automation. Unfortunately, some of the eyes that were on the lines, you know, the human eyes that were on the lines are no longer there. And the vision systems that are in place are inadequate to be able to pick up particularly foreign object detection. I think that's one particular challenge.

22:53

Barry McDonogh: And as those people go away and you just have machines there, then the potential foreign objects to get by, I think it increases.

23:02

Mark McAllister: I guess maybe the last question on that is how much has that changed since you first started prospecting the Himalaya project?

23:10

Barry McDonogh: So, I mean, we have only been focused on this for a few years now, but I think it's undoubtedly, you know, the automation in plants is increasing and will continue to increase. So that's definitely something that is sort of driving demand for these solutions. In terms of the issues of this, I think people are just more conscious of it. And one of the impact of sort of social media and just the spreading of information is that, you know, everybody here as well, something happens these days. You know, it's so easy to build. Information just spreads like wildfire and unfortunately when it's negative, it can really destroy a brand.

23:45

Mark McAllister: One more quick technical question and then we can get into some of the other program stuff. I know we've had some conversations about kind of the unique tech stack that you've developed for hyperspectral. Give us the pitch on why what in has developed is kind of top end for imaging and why you really think you guys have got something pretty special here?

24:08

Barry McDonogh: Yeah, I think, you know, so the hyperspectral imaging market in general is growing pretty quickly and that's a function of hardware costs which are coming down and improved computing power. So hyperspectral imaging is a technology that historically has been very difficult to use, very clunky, and that's why it's sort of been confined to the lab. So I think in general the market is benefiting from lower costs, improved computing power. So you're able to sort of take the tons of data that hyperspectral imaging sensors kick off and transform that into actionable intelligence in real time. You know, many of the providers in this space just focus on the hardware. We are focused on delivering a solution to our customers, so we want to own that entire solution.

24:52

Barry McDonogh: So both the hardware and then developing the machine learning algorithms to solve a specific problem, Find a problem that the incumbent inspection technologies can't solve and solve it for our customers and we'll own that so that if it doesn't work, it's on us, we own the entire solution. I think it's interesting the traditional hyperspectral imaging hardware companies have focused on hardware and now there are other companies who are essentially taking that hardware, combining it with the machine learning and then trying to solve those problems. I think we're relatively unique in that we can own that entire stack. We own the hardware, we own the software, we develop the machine learning algorithms and then we look to solve that problem.

25:33

Jordan Tyler: Super interesting. I want to shift a little bit if that's cool, and just kind of catch up. What's up with Barry? Like, how's the program been going and what kinds of opportunities have you gained or gleaned since we last spoke?

25:50

Barry McDonogh: Yes, the program's been great. We have now got two customer opportunities from the program, which is excellent. Part of the rationale for me being on this program, one is access to corporates large Corporates, so being able to generate new customers. And the second is access to capital. So so far we've had a ton of introductions with the two new programs, which is always great. Being part of a webinar, which is a new endeavor for the Plug and Play team with a number of other companies focused on the food safety side, which was great. We've also even we've started a partnership with one of the other startups on the program, which has been fantastic.

26:29

Barry McDonogh: There's a really nice, potentially really nice fit between our businesses and if it works, it will be, you know, it'll be pretty significant for both of our companies and typically educational programs week in, week out. So I've participated in a few of those. Through pmp, I was introduced to a number of angel groups. I think I have six or seven angel groups that I am engaged with now and they're proving a very good source of funding for the business as well. So that's all through Plug and Play.

27:03

Jordan Tyler: Well, it sounds like a lot of really exciting opportunities and introductions and I'm really happy to hear that for you.

27:10

Mark McAllister: I think in previous conversations, Barry, you've shared a little bit about your day to day, which has always kind of surprised slash amazed me just because I think you get more done in a day than most people do in a week. Give us a window, if you don't mind, into how you structure your waste. You've obviously been managing a number of different projects for some time and you've got a really interesting way of categorizing and I think your executive function here is a really interesting case study, if I may say so, which understand that's also maybe a little funky to talk about on a podcast, but give us a window into how you segment your time and then I've got a follow up for that on how you balance some things.

27:52

Barry McDonogh: Yeah. So I'm a dad and a husband. I have three young daughters. So Grace who's seven, I've got Abby who's five, and Isabelle who's three. So, you know, they're the best thing I've ever done in my life where and you're very important to me. And then I'm also trying to manage two businesses at the same time. And we also just so you know, we have a, a fourth on the way this year, so it's going to get even more hectic.

28:19

Jordan Tyler: Oh, wow, congrats!

28:21

Mark McAllister: Congratulations Barry!

28:23

Barry McDonogh: Yeah, so we'll have a fourth little McDonogh in August. So, you know, it's really difficult to balance. I mean, it's very difficult to balance two businesses and a family. There are sort of many jobs where you don't take your work home with you, or if you do, you know, you can maybe compartmentalize a little. But I think with, you know, if you spoke to any entrepreneur, they would probably say it never stops. The worry never stops. You're always worried about, you know, managing costs, getting payroll paid, how to cover the next payroll. And, you know, that's something that is not unique to me. I think that's. Every entrepreneur will tell you that is a challenge until they sort of break even and get properly capitalized and then they can relax a little bit. So really doesn't ever stop.

29:13

Barry McDonogh: And I think it is important as well. Obviously, you know, my family is more important than anything, so I need to have time with them as well. So I typically have three main hacks that I have to try and manage that. I think the most important one is I try and get a lot of stuff done when everybody else is asleep. So late at night and early mornings and then sort of the impact is less seen by your. Your family. I think the other thing I do is I travel very aggressively. That doesn't mean I get aggressive when I'm traveling. I'm not one of those people who goes up and stands looking at the people at the counter and shouts that the flight is delayed.

29:52

Barry McDonogh: But I mean, I'll do a lot of red-eyes or I'll travel out to a station back on the same day. So, you know, you get up at 2am in the morning and you get back at 1am and that way that reduces the number of nights that I'm away from my family. And then lastly, I think is just, you know, making sure when I'm with my family that. And I'm not always good at this. I haven't perfected this, but I am trying is making sure my phone's nowhere near me because you don't stop. You're always. There's always something in your email. You're always waiting to see. And, you know, you pick that phone up and, you know, the last thing I want to do is for my girls to think that, you know, my phone is more important than them.

30:32

Barry McDonogh: So they're the sort of the three sort of hacks that I have in trying to sort of achieve that balance. Now, I'd be lying to say I'm the best in the world at balance. I'm not.

30:43

Mark McAllister: Yeah, makes total sense. That's the best description of balance. I've heard because yeah, I think you're completely right in that most founders would even maybe decry the objective of balance. It's like, no, that's not the objective here. The objective is to build great products and to do anything to build great products. But then in your case, you know, like your relationship with your family can't come second to that. The follow up I do quickly have on just like, you know, personal habits. I've observed you as being consistent with a lot of other founders that take physical health very seriously and incorporate a lot of physical exercise.

31:23

Mark McAllister: I kind of found that maybe a little surprising as I got into venture is I think a lot of founders I've met incorporate that high levels of activity into their workflows as a means of achieving mental clarity, as a means of maybe even reset for a lot of them.

31:41

Barry McDonogh: Yeah, I think that's spot on. I mean I love to work out and I think it's just, you know, a really important component of clearing your mind. When you feel good in yourself, you know, you're able to sort of approach problems, I think a little bit better. So I, I've always been, I'm going to say addicted to working out because, you know, I think there is a, a level of addiction there. And when you don't get it, you feel, I mean exercise releases endorphins and when you don't get those, you definitely feel it. I also think as well, you know, I think when I'm traveling I try not to, you know, even have a glass of wine or anything like that. So, you know, you're usually so tired you don't want to add that to it as well.

32:21

Barry McDonogh: So from a health perspective, you know, I think working out and just like really staying hydrated is pretty key as well when you're traveling a lot. So I've got my Plug and Play water bottle which I bring with me everywhere that and you know, but I think you're absolutely right. It was interesting, you know, when were at the, were at a Plug and Play event in Topeka and you know, myself and one of the other founders, were, we had a relatively earlier start at the two of us were in the gym at 5 o'clock before you were meant to be in there just working out and it was, were laughing about it, the two of us together. But yeah, I think it's something, you know, you have to feel good in yourself to be able to sort of keep things moving. So. Yeah.

33:02

Mark McAllister: Are you, are you a morning guy or are you an evening guy or does it vary?

33:06

Barry McDonogh: I'm both. Yeah, I'm a terrible sleeper. So, you know, usually I'll work pretty late, I'll fall asleep for three hours and then I'll get up for two to three hours in the middle of the night and then I'll have another two hours sleep and then I'll get upset. That's how I typically work. I know that's terrible. I know. But that's just how I'm wired at the moment.

33:25

Mark McAllister: Everybody's a little different.

33:27

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. And it sounds like you're super mindful about it and that's kind of the best you can do. And I think that's something a lot of founders will relate to and hopefully take inspiration from because it can't be easy.

33:42

Barry McDonogh: I think this is the thing, you know, I don't think there's anything that I've done would be particularly inspirational. But I would say that, you know, one of the nice things that being part of the Plug and Play cohort is that I've met founders who are in the very same boat. So I'm very conscious of the fact there's thousands of people who are having the same experiences. And I think with this, it's been really lovely. A lovely part of the program is beyond the sort of the two, let's say, corporate goals that I've had in terms of, you know, fundraising and new customers. There's at least three or four people who I've become close to. We just, you know, we just laugh. You have to be a little bit crazy to do this at times.

34:20

Barry McDonogh: And just here, you know, there's lots of people in the same boat, so there's a real comfort in that.

34:26

Jordan Tyler: Barry over here keeping it wholesome. Super great catching up with him and hearing how Hinalea Imaging is progressing through the Plug and Play program. Sounds like there are very exciting things in store. So looking forward to sharing more on those in the next episode and beyond.

Next up is Daphne Preuss of Nataur, which is leading the charge in non-petroleum-based taurine production. As more consumers demand sustainable pet and human nutrition solutions, she's helping to tackle the challenge of delivering greener alternatives without sacrificing price or efficacy.

So I wanted to kick this off with some stats because we've been researching and talking to pet parents about their perceptions of sustainable products and sort of what would compel the average consumer to purchase a more sustainable nutritional product.

35:24

Jordan Tyler: And almost everybody we talk to when it comes to pet food specifically has said something along the lines of, I would be willing to pay 10% to 20% more for a sustainable product, but only if it still delivered the health benefits to my pet on par with the health benefits I perceive from what we're already feeding. And I just think that's so interesting and a really informative framework for how to develop and market sustainable products and brands like sustainability is important and people do care about it, but they seem to care more about the health benefits when it comes to their pets. And then they're also sensitive to the price premium. So we have to consider that and ensure we're achieving. Why am I blanking on this word? Price parity, Is that right?

36:18

Daphne Preuss: Yeah, that's the right word. That is exactly the right word. We probably say that every week. So when our research team first made the first taurine I mentioned, we've got microbial factories, they were very inefficient factories. And part of this journey over the last few years has been increase the productivity of those microbes. So went from something that was, you know, maybe a hundred times more expensive than the current to something that is priced at the same. And that was a goal because, you know, people like greener solutions, they like cleaner solutions, but if it costs a lot more, they're not so willing to pay for that. So if you can get the price to be at parity, then the market will accept it.

37:12

Jordan Tyler: Totally.

37:13

Daphne Preuss: Yeah.

37:14

Jordan Tyler: That's really great to hear for Nataur and the exciting innovation you guys are bringing forward now, shifting a little bit here, but because I know you're a more seasoned entrepreneur, Daphne, I'm really curious to hear what advice you'd have for other aspiring entrepreneurs, whether they're in agtech or animal health or another market.

37:37

Daphne Preuss: I think when people are launching companies, it's hard to be patient. You know, they want to form the company and two months later raise a bunch of money and a few months after that have sales. If you're in a highly technical scientific space, it just takes time. And this is the first thing I would say is just take the time you need to do it right and do it well. Sometimes if you try to get an investor at a very early stage, then you will give up a lot of your ownership of the company. And while that has some financial implications, but it also has implications for the company's success because most typically people deploying the dollars don't have the experience that the founders have and don't really know how to run the company.

38:33

Daphne Preuss: And so if you give up control very early, you know, then those other People may take you in a different direction that may or may not succeed. So that's one of the things I've seen again and again is it takes time to find the right match. The other thing is whether you're forming relationships with large companies or forming relationships with investors, these are generally not just one off transactions, these are things that last for years and years. So I try to tell people it's a little bit like a marriage. You know, you first get to know each other, then after a while it becomes a deeper relationship. Right. But you need to make sure that the people you deal with early are people you can work with over time.

39:22

Daphne Preuss: And if it's starting off very ugly and very difficult, maybe good to evaluate whether you really want to do that relationship. So I think being selective helps. So what that means generally for a lot of people it's don't quit your day job, you know, because you may not have the funds to pay yourself for a while. So your company could be a sideline gig while you know, get it up and rolling. That's okay. People are expecting that these days. They're not, they're not expecting people to suffer and starve and only work at a company that has no funds.

40:00

Daphne Preuss: So that's what you see a lot is people are pulled in for part time roles and they all contribute, they come together and then finally when enough is done and it kind of reaches that point where everyone has confidence it's going to be okay, then the financing comes in, then everyone can quit their day jobs and you know, build the company.

40:22

Jordan Tyler: Yeah. Where would you say Nataur is along that spectrum right now?

40:28

Daphne Preuss: We are very much at that inflection point. So, you know, five years of building the science. Well, four years of building the science before it became Nataur. Three years of building it within Nataur. So what happened before and after that was from first they proved it could work and then the last three years have been getting the efficiency high enough so we can get price parity like we talked about. Now that we've got that, we're going into scaled production. So we've got our manufacturer in place. Customers are lined up, waiting, saying, hey, I'm ready. You get this made and I'll send it to you. So we are just in the moment of scaling up production and then we'll have sales. So I hope when we see you again, maybe in a year, it's kind of, we're past that, we're selling.

41:18

Daphne Preuss: We've raised a lot of capital to promote this Business. And now we're working on our platform for molecule 2, molecule 3, etc.

41:27

Jordan Tyler: Super exciting.

41:29

Daphne Preuss: Yeah, it is, it's. It's right on the cusp. I mean, we're very, very close to getting this off the ground. So we're excited.

41:38

Jordan Tyler: So I want to know more about Daphne. Like, when you're not being a rock star and building cool companies and helping other people build cool companies, what do you like to do in your free time?

41:51

Daphne Preuss: Oh, my. Well, I'm calling you from the northeast. I live in Maine, and until three years ago, I lived in downtown Chicago. So I haven't lived here long enough that I've explored everything. And so just getting outdoors, it's. It's such a different world here. You know, being able to hike and, you know, see the coastline and things like that. So I just love that, you know, just being outdoors sometimes when I get a chance, I love to go scuba diving, but. Yeah, that's great fun.

42:29

Jordan Tyler: I love that for you. I've never lived in, like, a truly big city, but can imagine that the move from Chicago to Maine would be quite the shift.

42:41

Daphne Preuss: It's crazy. We had more people in my apartment building than we have in our town. So just kind of picture that, you know, it's just very different. It's. It's really nice to, you know, just get to see the cycles, the seasons. Loving it.

43:02

Jordan Tyler: Well, I don't want to peel back too many layers since we still have several episodes to learn more about you and get your thoughts on the Plug and Play program and new developments with Nataur. But is there anything else on your mind? We talked about some different applications for microbial taurine in the first episode, so maybe anything along those lines that we can look forward to in the next episode?

43:26

Daphne Preuss: You know, maybe for a future one. You're thinking a lot about pet food and pet health, but there is a whole world of aquaculture. Animal feed and taurine is becoming a big, you know, target for those areas. Also for those who do farmed fish, farmed shrimp. You know, a lot of our aquatic species love to eat other animals. And what is happening now is the diet is shifting to plant based. Just they make pellets that feed, you know, these fish. So for example, soybean is a big component of fish diets and they're deficient in taurine, you know, so there you go. As people kind of industrialize more and more the food system, they need to think about those ingredients.

44:21

Jordan Tyler: Totally. Yeah. And it Comes back to the whole question of how we're going to feed the growing population of not only people and pets, but also the animals that we raise for food, particularly in the protein space and in the marine ecosystem, like you mentioned, like, how can we do it more sustainably?

44:41

Daphne Preuss: Absolutely, absolutely. And right now I think there's just a lot of learning curve that people are going through and it's not always all that sustainable. And you'll see a lot of these animals for production, they'll. They'll succumb to disease, they'll get parasites. Well, a lot of that's. They're just not that healthy. Right. So thinking through how to do it better. The oceans are being depleted of wild species and people want to eat fish. So anyway, those are some topics. Maybe for another time.

45:17

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, let's definitely chat more about that next time we catch up. I'm sure we could talk about that for hours and I'd love to pick your brain more about that piece in particular, as well as go a little deeper into some of the other use cases for microbial taurine. Because really, the shampoo example you gave in the first episode is so fascinating and surprising to me and hopefully resonates with a lot of people. Right? I mean, hopefully most people use shampoo, right?

45:47

Daphne Preuss: Yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. I think we counted like 400 personal care products that have taurine in them. It's really everywhere. Cosmetics, you know, it's good for skin, all sorts of things. Yeah, yeah.

46:02

Jordan Tyler: I had no idea it was so widespread. So we will definitely dig deeper as this series progresses and I look forward to learning more about the surprising ways we can incorporate more sustainable sources of ingredients like taurine into our daily health and beauty and nutrition regimens. So stay tuned.

46:23

Mark McAllister: As we dive deeper, it's clear that innovation and sustainability isn't just about greener products. It's about making them more accessible, affordable and effective. The work Nataur is doing to bring microbial taurine to market is a perfect example of how cutting-edge science is shaping the future of food nutrition.

46:40

Jordan Tyler: Absolutely, it is. From revolutionary food safety technologies to transparent pet supplementation. We'll continue checking in with these founders and others, as well as stakeholders across the startup ecosystem. We're also hoping to talk with some mentors of the Plug and Play program, the corporate partners supporting the program and the startups within it, and some venture capitalists that are eager to fund the latest innovations across agtech, animal health, sustainability and a number of other sectors.

47:12

Mark McAllister: Thanks everybody for listening to founders and focus if you'd like to learn more about BSM Partners or Plug and Play, we've linked our website in the show notes in the episode so you can learn more.

47:22

Jordan Tyler: Until next time. Remember, every breakthrough has a unique beginning, and behind every founder is a story worth hearing. We'll see you next time.